The title of this Substack post repeats that of the BBC’s Chris Mason’s report of a fascinating conversation at an event organised by the Reform think tank on 19 January 2023. The conversation was mainly between Reform’s Charlotte Pickles and two former Permanent Secretaries who spoke very candidly about the weaknesses of the current UK civil service. This was part of Reform’s inquiry into
Thanks for posting this, Martin. Pretty depressing but also positive in a way. Especially good to see two points in particular being aired: 1) the need publicly to acknowledge how broken the system has become as a first step to rebuilding it ; and 2) Philip Rycroft's point about the need clearly to separate departments from ministers. On the latter, transparency isn't essential to this (it was, for example, the way the system worked in the very un-transparent 1950s and 60s) but in the present context I think Rycroft's suggestion of clear civil service accountability and input to select committees (in its own right, not as a representative of ministerial will) is well worth thinking about (and long overdue, frankly.
One minor point - it's striking how recently exited senior civil servants are still talking of colleagues as the best minds of their generation, just hampered by a broken system. Really? In my experience of teaching some of the best minds of a generation since the late-1990s, suggest to them that that they might consider a career in the civil service and they just looked at you as if you were mad! So let's acknowledge that too as a first step to driving up quality?
Thanks for going to the trouble of transcribing elements of the discussion. I joined the Dti in its then incarnation in 1967 as a direct entrant EO in London, a Lancastrian in a foreign land. I had two five year terms in London including working on policy (where I met you) and some contact with Ministers. I met many of the ‘best minds of their generation’ and was generally more amused than intimidated perhaps because there were more like me than like them. I still maintain that a sense of vocation for public service is essential to good delivery and continuity. If some of Mr Pemberton’ students regarded the idea of working in the CS as mad, the Service is better off without them.
Two points briefly from my own experience. I worked on a policy for small firms (the Local Enterprise Grant Scheme), writing the guidelines and in so doing unwittingly developing the policy. I then left London for Newcastle and ended up delivering the very policy that I had helped design as part of my new role (Regional Enterprise Units). It was an education, both defending what one had helped devise and also delivering it sensibly. Might this happen more often now?
Second point: It’s important to be brave, to have self confidence. The pressure from above, often subtle or at least off file, can be insidious. I turned down three grant claims for lack of quality or poor performance and felt the pressure. In two cases the decisions were reviewed by senior officers but had to stand. Dti training stood me in good stead as my team had done their job very well.
As you know, I had the good luck to work for a fabulous boss (BJGH) and others too one would go that extra mile for. There were others less so which led to me resigning to work for myself. I saw too many using the CS for career development and not for the importance of the work or that sense of public sector vocation that I cling to. A circle that can’t be squared?
Thanks for posting this, Martin. Pretty depressing but also positive in a way. Especially good to see two points in particular being aired: 1) the need publicly to acknowledge how broken the system has become as a first step to rebuilding it ; and 2) Philip Rycroft's point about the need clearly to separate departments from ministers. On the latter, transparency isn't essential to this (it was, for example, the way the system worked in the very un-transparent 1950s and 60s) but in the present context I think Rycroft's suggestion of clear civil service accountability and input to select committees (in its own right, not as a representative of ministerial will) is well worth thinking about (and long overdue, frankly.
One minor point - it's striking how recently exited senior civil servants are still talking of colleagues as the best minds of their generation, just hampered by a broken system. Really? In my experience of teaching some of the best minds of a generation since the late-1990s, suggest to them that that they might consider a career in the civil service and they just looked at you as if you were mad! So let's acknowledge that too as a first step to driving up quality?
Thanks for going to the trouble of transcribing elements of the discussion. I joined the Dti in its then incarnation in 1967 as a direct entrant EO in London, a Lancastrian in a foreign land. I had two five year terms in London including working on policy (where I met you) and some contact with Ministers. I met many of the ‘best minds of their generation’ and was generally more amused than intimidated perhaps because there were more like me than like them. I still maintain that a sense of vocation for public service is essential to good delivery and continuity. If some of Mr Pemberton’ students regarded the idea of working in the CS as mad, the Service is better off without them.
Two points briefly from my own experience. I worked on a policy for small firms (the Local Enterprise Grant Scheme), writing the guidelines and in so doing unwittingly developing the policy. I then left London for Newcastle and ended up delivering the very policy that I had helped design as part of my new role (Regional Enterprise Units). It was an education, both defending what one had helped devise and also delivering it sensibly. Might this happen more often now?
Second point: It’s important to be brave, to have self confidence. The pressure from above, often subtle or at least off file, can be insidious. I turned down three grant claims for lack of quality or poor performance and felt the pressure. In two cases the decisions were reviewed by senior officers but had to stand. Dti training stood me in good stead as my team had done their job very well.
As you know, I had the good luck to work for a fabulous boss (BJGH) and others too one would go that extra mile for. There were others less so which led to me resigning to work for myself. I saw too many using the CS for career development and not for the importance of the work or that sense of public sector vocation that I cling to. A circle that can’t be squared?